枪友会

 找回密码
 立即注册
搜索
热搜: 入门 指南 攻略
12
返回列表 发新帖
楼主: alicoco

[枪械知识] 萌新请教k31

[复制链接]

46

主题

1854

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
15993
21#
发表于 2022-4-3 20:09 | 只看该作者
raydeon 发表于 2022-4-3 18:51
附图都是阁下的炮??

是我的就好了,我做梦笑歪嘴到面瘫的!我没有觇孔,但在这里这种是K31的标配。
回复

使用道具 举报

46

主题

1854

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
15993
22#
发表于 2022-4-3 20:11 | 只看该作者
raydeon 发表于 2022-4-3 19:01
今日难得有空,去看了看大神您之前po的东西。醍醐灌顶啊...啊....

呵呵,一起交流学习,这里很多牛人,有的牛到超乎想象。。。

还大神呢,“大神”周六买了3盒10块的高价霰弹,去打美碟,企图25-25,结果俩24,一个23,气疯要摔炮,被老头拦下。
回复

使用道具 举报

18

主题

148

帖子

3685

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3685
23#
 楼主| 发表于 2022-4-3 23:41 | 只看该作者
raydeon 发表于 2022-4-4 03:54
自己复装啊。我还没买k31就已经开始在看蛋壳。家里已经有无烟粉,底火和308弹头
...

从来没有复装过步枪子弹,先找些资料学习一下
馄饨饺子叉烧包
回复

使用道具 举报

18

主题

148

帖子

3685

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3685
24#
 楼主| 发表于 2022-4-4 10:15 | 只看该作者
lelexiao12 发表于 2022-4-3 20:46
K31的专用工具就在瑞士军刀上,有一个平时怎么都用不上的奇怪扳手就是,可能除了那种特别小的瑞士军刀没有 ...

谢谢只是可惜没有在自己的小刀上找到这个小工具
馄饨饺子叉烧包
回复

使用道具 举报

22

主题

205

帖子

5333

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
5333
25#
发表于 2022-4-4 12:53 | 只看该作者
我最近也在研究K31,找diopter sight时发现了这个网站,有很多知识可以学习:
https://www.swissproductsusa.com/faq
蒙大拿州一个老头子开的,专搞瑞士军枪的配件,据说他们家的diopter sight做了很多改进,我定了还没到,等研究过上来报告。

关于枪油,我找不到原装的waffenfett,但是据这个网站介绍,成分最接近的是这种grease:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B005YS ... t_b_product_details


回复

使用道具 举报

22

主题

282

帖子

3583

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3583
26#
发表于 2022-4-4 16:35 | 只看该作者
chrischan1985 发表于 2022-4-4 12:53
我最近也在研究K31,找diopter sight时发现了这个网站,有很多知识可以学习:
https://www.swissproductsus ...

来,给你读读那老爷子回复我脸书上面问的问题“我是应该买一支带原装diopter瞄的还是买一支裸体的买swiss products USA的。老爷子居然回复我了。

Very long winded, but this is the complete story..............   The P/S Diopter was developed over a period of three years. We tried for 8 years to gain approval of the SSV in Switzerland but were turned down prototype after prototype we submitted each year.
Finally in 2011 we gained unconditional approval by the SSV and the P/S was approved for sanctioned Swiss matches world wide. We couldn't patent the outer shell or extant inner design  of the Diopter because Wyss in Switzerland held that, but we were able to patent the newly designed inner workings of the P/S because it was completely different than the old Swiss "original". Another company in Germany attempted to duplicate the P/S in 2013 but our Distributor in the Netherlands supplied his own attorney to stop that production.

How the P/S Diopter came to be, and the story of the first production P/S.

We developed out first Diopter because the ones in production both in Switzerland and Germany had obvious design and function shortcomings. Anyone who owns an “original” Diopter knows this. The Diopter was never a Bern manufacture and has nothing to do with Army issue items. They were originally all made by “cottage industries” in Switzerland and Germany, so there are no "originals".

The "original" Diopters have a real flaw. If you traverse the windage to the maximum in both directions you’ll see a gap open up exposing the inside of the Diopter to dirt, sand, whatever. The Matrix also “cocks” itself off true horizontal.

You’ll also notice that when you mount the Diopter, to achieve a true axis alignment to the front sight and the bore, you have to begin with a substantial left windage setting.  We completely redesigned the interior workings of the Diopter to correct all of that. The Steel Type P/S only came about because of demands from the Swiss SSV. Without those changes they would not give us approval for Swiss Sanctioned Matches worldwide, so………….. We developed the Type P/S and gave it a 1,000 yard capability to boot, so………………….. How our Diopters were designated.

It’s not something I did. Frank Van Binnendijk (Guisan) posted the designation on his own when we did our first show & tell. He called it the Type P. Maybe a week went by when I asked him why he had given it that designation. He asked. “What’s your name?” Well………….. its Pierre. *D’Oh!* ………and that is how it was named. Subsequently there was the Type PII, and that one clamped on our existing scope mount that many shooters already had. It allowed the Scope and Type PII Diopter to be quickly changed from one to the other. The Type PIIC was simply the entire system with the Clamp On Scope Mount included. All were aluminum at that time.

It took nearly 8 years to gain SSV approval, and our SP Distributor in Switzerland had a lot to do with it. We submitted 4 different protypes ove that period, and they were all turned down, one after the other, but..........  The odd thing is that they never made it back to the US. They simply disappeared into the SSV.  LOL

My frustration level was rather high, so we developed a Steel Diopter with a radical new internal op-system. We were able to accomplish 75 out to 1,000+ yards with this one. But it had to be proofed by someone who was both qualified and not connected to SP in any way. Enter US Naval Distinguished Marksman, Robert L. Steinberg.

Bob provided the testing we needed before submitting this new design to the SSV in Switzerland. I have his proof results around here somewhere, and I'll post it as soon as I locate it. It's around 12 years ago now. So................. in appreciation for his efforts in provind the P/S at Quantico, we dedicated the very first production Type P/S off the line to him.

We were accepted by the Swiss SSV in 2012, I think. (OGS again.) Latigo not only engraved the dedication on the Diopter, but he also made a presentation case for Mr. Steinberg, acknowledging our sincere appreciation.

Now with the advent of the new Adjustable Front Sight, even the old Type P’s and PIIs will achieve the 1,000 yard ability.
As of the end of next week, the new P11 Diopters will be on the way to Grafs. This one will use the 1911 Clamp-On-Mount and work with the 1889, Kadett, 1896, 96/11, the G11 and the K11 rifles.

*Note: Since this was written many years ago, SP is now public direct. Our products are no longer carried by Brownell's or Graf & sons.*

Time to clarify and save me a BUNCH of PM/email answering.

Question: Why are the Swiss Products Diopters as expensive as they are now?

Four years ago my friend Frank Van Binnendijk asked me if he could show our interior design to Daniel Wyss. He was interested in what we were doing. Wyss is a HUGE weapons and accessory manufacturer in Switzerland. He was intrigued by our 1,000+ yard capablility. He also made one that went to 1,000 yards, but not a stand-alone system. If a shooter wanted to go beyond 500 yards, he was obliged to make a rail change in the Diopter, but then he couldn't go down to 100 yards without changing rails back again.

Latigo printed up a large photo of our PS Diopter interior and cost factors and sent it to Frank for Daniel Wyss with my blessing.

One week later Frank was in Switzerland and spoke to Daniel again and gave him a larger copy. The answer came rather quickly. He was told that a diopter with the capablity of the PS with the myriad of parts such as double-spring systems etc, could not be manufactured for even 10% more than Graf's retail price.

Those of you familiar with the original Swiss and German Diopters know that it all hinged on one, large spring in the upper right corner of the Diopter that handled both windage and elevation. The PS and G11 Diopters are a very far cry from both the original and present day Diopters from Switzerland and Germany. We cost count every single part in the Mfg. of our Diopters and our markup is the same as every Mfg in the country does, just to keep us afloat. I'll copy and paste this for future PMs and emails.

I thank you............ Leslie thanks you........ Leslie Salt Co. @1782
回复

使用道具 举报

22

主题

282

帖子

3583

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3583
27#
发表于 2022-4-4 16:36 | 只看该作者
细读可以看到老爷子是把同一份回覆copy paste了回复我。但是很有说明力
回复

使用道具 举报

46

主题

1854

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
15993
28#
发表于 2022-4-4 18:00 | 只看该作者
chrischan1985 发表于 2022-4-4 12:53
我最近也在研究K31,找diopter sight时发现了这个网站,有很多知识可以学习:
https://www.swissproductsus ...

我们这里的老K油,一半用这个,一半用WF的“原装”货,貌似和平共处,没有谁看不起谁,都互相接受。

我目前还没中DIOPTER的毒,但是认识老头以后,他们有时候邀请我去蹭枪,次数多了可能就定力不够了。

过两天我发一篇介绍一下老头们用diopter的轶事
回复

使用道具 举报

22

主题

205

帖子

5333

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
5333
29#
发表于 2022-4-4 18:17 | 只看该作者
赤影 发表于 2022-4-4 18:00
我们这里的老K油,一半用这个,一半用WF的“原装”货,貌似和平共处,没有谁看不起谁,都互相接受。

我 ...

有老K油带队真不错。
加州湾区这边,竟然被我搜出来Monterey地区一个正经由瑞士人开的swiss rifle club,等哪天有精力了也去跟老头们学习下
回复

使用道具 举报

22

主题

205

帖子

5333

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
5333
30#
发表于 2022-4-4 18:21 | 只看该作者
raydeon 发表于 2022-4-4 16:35
来,给你读读那老爷子回复我脸书上面问的问题“我是应该买一支带原装diopter瞄的还是买一支裸体的买swiss ...

这老头子就是很热心,而且对自己产品非常proud哈,有时候我有些随机的瑞士枪问题就直接发邮件问
回复

使用道具 举报

22

主题

282

帖子

3583

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3583
31#
发表于 2022-4-4 18:32 | 只看该作者
chrischan1985 发表于 2022-4-4 18:17
有老K油带队真不错。
加州湾区这边,竟然被我搜出来Monterey地区一个正经由瑞士人开的swiss rifle club, ...

湾区哪里?
回复

使用道具 举报

46

主题

1854

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
15993
32#
发表于 2022-4-4 18:41 | 只看该作者

Monterey Swiss Rifle Club | The High Road
最后一句很爽的样子。

Monterey County Swiss Rifle Club - Home | Facebook
非死不可,需要瑞士血统,否则从associate、assitant干起
回复

使用道具 举报

46

主题

1854

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
15993
33#
发表于 2022-4-4 21:04 | 只看该作者
刚刚写的记叙文和感触 供各位参考
http://qiangyou.org/bbs/forum.ph ... id=54420&extra=
回复

使用道具 举报

18

主题

148

帖子

3685

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3685
34#
 楼主| 发表于 2022-4-5 02:40 | 只看该作者
赤影 发表于 2022-4-5 06:04
刚刚写的记叙文和感触 供各位参考
http://qiangyou.org/bbs/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=54420&extra= ...

何等的巨佬行为行动力拉满了
馄饨饺子叉烧包
回复

使用道具 举报

24

主题

302

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
15243
35#
发表于 2022-4-5 07:15 | 只看该作者
赤影 发表于 2022-4-3 12:11
你的问题太笼统了,我们没法回答,网上找找资料油管上看看吧,会有很多收获。这版上K31的大佬是赵反右。

...

不是大佬,看得多点而已
回复

使用道具 举报

24

主题

302

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
15243
36#
发表于 2022-4-5 07:41 | 只看该作者
恭喜楼主喜获新枪,可以买瑞士K1军剩cleaning kit,长这样
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/923711013
黄瓶子里淡棕色的油脂叫Waffenfett(如果还又剩余的话),一般瑞士人打完枪后,趁着枪管还热时,立着枪,从枪口涂些Waffenfett,在喝完一扎啤酒或抽棵烟后,枪管过几道PATCH, 清干净后,再涂一层Waffenfett保存,下次打前过两道PATCH把管子清干净,枪栓的部件也是用这种油脂润滑保护
很多瑞士人也使用Putzzeug Sturmgewehr 57, Stgw. 57 的cleaning kit
你人在欧洲的话可以关注下德国的EGUN,这东东长这样
https://www.egun.de/market/item.php?id=14632090
里面的两个黑塑料瓶(也有可能是镀锌金属瓶,或刷了黑漆的金属瓶)里装的油脂叫Automatenfett, 使用方法步骤跟上面的Waffenfett差不多,这套清枪工具很好用,ROD钢杆两头有铜套头包裹,不会伤枪管,也可以用来清理其它30口径的枪。
当然,用CLP 或其它枪油,其它清枪工具也可以,用30口径的boresnake也很便捷
你已经知道怎么拆解维护BOLT了,youtube上有指南,略过了,
其它部件,用一个平头螺丝刀就可以拆解,重装。
1,把BOLT,弹匣取出,松开front barrel band的螺丝,取下front barrel band
2. 松开rear barrel band的螺丝,把butt stock mount上的sling bracket 松开,一手压下rear barrel band 的限位spring, 另一只手就可以把rear barrel band 移至枪口取下,这时,upper handguard 就可以取下了
3. 用平头螺丝刀松开action screw和tang screw, barrel 和receiver 就可以和stock 分开了。
这样,就算时分解完了,重装的话,反过来,trigger, ejector, sear 也可以无需工具很容易地拆下,但是,没有必要,检查下枪管外壁,看有没有锈,可以用油脂抹一层保护下,特别是枪淋了雨后,一般瑞士军人对枪械维护都是很好的。
重装时注意action screw 一定要拧紧,tang screw也要拧紧,有人说rear tang screw 可以在 0-1/4 turn 之间调节,可以获得更好的精度,这个我无法证实或证伪,front barrel band 的螺丝也要拧紧, rear band 的可以松点,K31大部分管子是free float的,front barrel band 处是紧紧clamp down的,出厂验枪时就这样,千万不要把前面木头移除,尝试free float 整个枪管以提高精度, 这点很重要,有很多好事者free float了K31整个枪管,结果很失望,要相信瑞士人的智慧,他们肯定试过的。K31的先驱,K11, M1911,front barrel band枪管那里都有一个铝套筒,整枪管是free float的, 如果K31可以这样提高精度,他们肯定也会这么做的。
回复

使用道具 举报

18

主题

148

帖子

3685

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3685
37#
 楼主| 发表于 2022-4-5 08:35 | 只看该作者
赵反右 发表于 2022-4-5 16:41
恭喜楼主喜获新枪,可以买瑞士K1军剩cleaning kit,长这样
https://www.gunbroker.com/item/923711013
黄瓶 ...

谢谢大佬解惑刚刚下单了一个军剩清洁套件而第二套大的暂时只找到二手的所以准备在等等看,不过有一些关于这个小清洁包的小问题,这个包中的小刮刀样子的东西和那片铁丝网是用来清洁什么的呢?还有关于您说的对枪管的油脂的使用,是指在枪管热的时候在枪口涂一些让其自然软化淌进枪管内部吗?然后就是我下载了一本说明手册,上面有说一些在我看来比较奇怪的点,比如几乎所有的金属件都要上一层薄油哪怕是弹匣,这样的话不会使其出现故障码?而不抹油的地方为percuteur和canal de percussion,前者我明白是击针,但后面的这个部件请问您知道是什么吗?最后一个小问题是您知道那个军剩套件里的绳子的使用方法吗?这难道是老式boresnake?
馄饨饺子叉烧包
回复

使用道具 举报

24

主题

302

帖子

1万

积分

老牌枪友

Rank: 3Rank: 3

积分
15243
38#
发表于 2022-4-5 10:12 | 只看该作者
小刮刀样子的东西是小镜子,bore mirror, 把枪管照亮,检查枪管用的,铁丝网是应该是裹在L型handle 前端清枪膛积碳的。是的,油脂化后顺管子流下。跟所有枪一样, 暴露的金属件表面涂层薄薄的油起保护作用,不会造成故障。canal de percussion 不懂是什么,猜是bolt cylinder的内腔吧?金属和金属有接触,有相对运动的接触面抹油脂。绳子就是boresnake,绳子端的金属杆嵌在,穿过那个L型handle 里,拉,这种cleaning kit 买一个收藏用就可以了,个人觉得用别的cleaning kit 更方便。
回复

使用道具 举报

18

主题

148

帖子

3685

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3685
39#
 楼主| 发表于 2022-4-5 11:28 | 只看该作者
赵反右 发表于 2022-4-5 19:12
小刮刀样子的东西是小镜子,bore mirror, 把枪管照亮,检查枪管用的,铁丝网是应该是裹在L型handle 前端清 ...

明白了,非常感谢
馄饨饺子叉烧包
回复

使用道具 举报

18

主题

148

帖子

3685

积分

高级枪友

Rank: 2

积分
3685
40#
 楼主| 发表于 2022-4-15 08:19 | 只看该作者
赵反右 发表于 2022-4-5 19:12
小刮刀样子的东西是小镜子,bore mirror, 把枪管照亮,检查枪管用的,铁丝网是应该是裹在L型handle 前端清 ...

大佬我的K31终于到了,把玩时候遇到一些小问题可以请教一下吗?谢谢
馄饨饺子叉烧包
回复

使用道具 举报

您需要登录后才可以回帖 登录 | 立即注册

本版积分规则

触屏版|枪友会

GMT-8, 2024-4-28 08:22 , Processed in 0.038608 second(s), 17 queries .

快速回复 返回顶部 返回列表