大家对这个杀狮子的牙医怎么看？

longlive

我现在想到的就是，在互联网时代，成为人民公敌也太容易了。

Bentley

"他们将一头动物尸体绑在车上引诱塞西尔，将其引诱到国家公园外"
It is not right

rc256

Baiting by itself is acceptable practice in hunting lions/leopard, etc. And I believe all property owners adjacent to public conservation area probably do that too. And I believe this is probably legal if they have a tag permit.  Many national parks already reached the carrying capacity.

The issue here is that it looks like the hunting guide and land owner didn't have proper permit and appeared to bait and hunt and try to move the kill later to another area to pose as legal kill. This certainly is not acceptable.

From rational point of view, I don't think the guide or land owner knew Cecil (the popular car) is the one they killed until after. It would be stupid to target the popular cat.  They probably just wanted to hunt any big male wild lion there because the adjacency of the land to national park. Unfortunately they killed the wrong one and get caught red handed.  Nonetheless, WITHOUT proper permit, it is wrong to kill any lion in that area. So they deserve whatever the outcome.

The American dentist, Palmer, may or may not know the legality before and during the hunt. Bad luck for him. In the court of law, he may not be liable because there was not proof of intention. But in the court of public opinion, he is doomed.

darthbuddha

现在他当然推说他不知道了。。。
狮子头还没有找到， 而且他们还试图销毁GPS Device

rc256

darthbuddha 发表于 2015-7-29 09:48
现在他当然推说他不知道了。。。
狮子头还没有找到， 而且他们还试图销毁GPS Device
...

There is no question he realized the hunt was illegal after the kill. But I can not be sure if he knew before or during the hunt. So far there is no conrete evidence saying otherwise.

Hohenstaufenz

The dentist Walter Palmer, who baited and killed that lion Cecil for sport, deserves to lose everything he holds dear. Let's start with his career. I'm not against hunting for pest control, but what he did was poaching in both the act itself and the intent behind those actions. Let's take a close look at this case: Mr. Palmer has killed a collared and the most revered national icon of an entire nation, which relies greatly on its eco-tourism. Why shouldn't he be held accountable for his action? He shot the lion within crossbow distance, so we all know how close he was to the animal when he took the first shot. how did he not notice the animal was collared? Even if he didn't, baiting an animal to an area without a lion quota was a clear violation of the laws, according to Zimbabwe authority. After tracking the animal for 40 hours and finally killed him, he attempted to hide the evidence and failed to report that the animal was collared. For an experienced trophy hunter, he should have notified the authority and come out with a better legal position; instead, he was exposed only after the animal's carcass has been found with his head chopped off after several days in the wild.

As long as there are unscrupulous trophy hunters who will stop at nothing for the thrill of killing in this world, there will always be demand for a black market of poaching in the grey legal zone of those African countries. To kill that market, it takes international effort to enforce the anti-poaching laws from the very bottom, starting with this fucker. He has brought shame to the whole hunting community. I'm glad to see he's paying for his despicable crime.

Laou168

这家伙嫌人牙不够大，吃饱了撑得无聊。

rc256

Hohenstaufenz 发表于 2015-7-29 09:58
The dentist Walter Palmer, who baited and killed that lion Cecil for sport, deserves to lose everyth ...

You have some good points. But I would not draw the conclusion that fast yet. When you hunt in a foreign contry, you rely on local guides for compliance of the laws and permits. So all I am saying his defense may be plausible.

When I hunted in south africa, I would be royally screwed if my outfitter not complying with local laws and get caught. When you hunt in the field, you follow the guide. It is not clearly black/white until. Hunting collared lion may not be illegal. Just like you hunt a collared mountain lion in Wyoming in private land. The animal wandered off theire protected area so it may be a fair game.

Certainly his action after the hunt is not honorable. But seriouly, would you rather flying back in the US or staying in Zimbabwean, where it is known for rampant government corruption? For now Palmer says he will cooperate with officail investigations. ANd I don't see anything wrong with that.

I am not saying Palmer is definitely not guity, I am saying we don't know all the information, and should not let our emotion making premature judgements.

Hohenstaufenz

rc256 发表于 2015-7-29 08:17
You have some good points. But I would not draw the conclusion that fast yet. When you hunt in a f ...

Well, it really doesn't matter anymore, considering he's already lost his business and his reputation, possibly his financial standing and freedom soon. He earned himself the title of the Most Hated American Alive the moment he took that shot. I'm sure he'll find a good team of lawyers just like Mr. Simpson did, but it won't matter that much in the age of social media. By the way, as you may have pointed out, this isn't the first time this guy got caught poaching; and even worse, this isn't the first time he got caught lying in court about his poaching.

darthbuddha

I understand hunting big cat is legal in Zimbabwe, but is it legal to lure the lion out of park then kill it?
After he made the kill and assume they found the GPS device, what did they do, they skinned his corpse and cut off his head. They knew they did something wrong and tried to destroy GPS ...

longlive

Hohenstaufenz 发表于 2015-7-29 11:46
Well, it really doesn't matter anymore, considering he's already lost his business and his reputat ...

这其实是很恐怖的事情，如果互联网上的人认为你有罪，你就doomed 了。以前文革贴大字报和这个的效率差太远。

我们作为华裔，拥枪的，其实在这方面处于很不利的地位。互联网的这种mob justice，其实是在破坏一个国家的法律秩序。

裹挟民意，在互联网时代太容易了。

rc256

Maybe I should delete all my hunting blog.

Hohenstaufenz

rc256 发表于 2015-7-29 09:13
Maybe I should delete all my hunting blog.

No, this is the place to post them. But Facebook is clearly not. I don't post any gun related comments or pictures on my profile there.

rc256

longlive 发表于 2015-7-29 10:52
这其实是很恐怖的事情，如果互联网上的人认为你有罪，你就doomed 了。以前文革贴大字报和这个的效率差太远 ...

I agree with your opinion. Mob justice is a scary thing. Like the chinese cultural revolution. Hope we don't renegate to that dark age.

Hohenstaufenz

longlive 发表于 2015-7-29 08:52
这其实是很恐怖的事情，如果互联网上的人认为你有罪，你就doomed 了。以前文革贴大字报和这个的效率差太远 ...

What he did was wrong, namely poaching and destroying evidence. The public opinion is a mere reflection to the gravity of his crime this time. Imagine this guy travelled to China and bribed his way to hunt down a giant panda, while claiming he had no idea that panda hunting were illegal there and he trusted his "local guides", wouldn't you feel pretty pissed about having your national icon getting murdered under your nose while the offending party claims lack of willful knowledge and legal cognizance? Same thing with the international sentiment here, especially for the Zimbabweans. What he did was wrong based on the facts that have surfaced already. Justice hasn't been served yet, but judgment has.

Commissar

Hohenstaufenz 发表于 2015-7-29 08:46
Well, it really doesn't matter anymore, considering he's already lost his business and his reputat ...

I doubt he's lost his business. Social media are known to have a very short attention span. It is unethical and perhaps illegal that he still decided to remove the head and skin after they realized it was a collared lion. A person as wealthy as he is, he has no need to reopen his business for a while.

rc256

Commissar 发表于 2015-7-29 11:37
I doubt he's lost his business. Social media are known to have a very short attention span. It is  ...

Just technical question, assuming if they had a legal permit in the area and baiting is legal, would it be legal to hunt collared game?  Insightful comments from both side are welcome. I can't find any rules against it.  

alex

rc256 发表于 2015-7-29 09:43
Just technical question, assuming if they had a legal permit in the area and baiting is legal, wou ...

你可以问问你在南非的outfitter?看看他们的看法是什么样的。
话说你咋没去打狮子呢？。。。。

rc256

alex 发表于 2015-7-29 11:47
你可以问问你在南非的outfitter?看看他们的看法是什么样的。
话说你咋没去打狮子呢？。。。。 ...

不能一次射太多。要不，明年一起去？

alex

rc256 发表于 2015-7-29 09:51
要不，明年一起去？

靠，俺还要养家糊口。。。。。。

你的连载刊登完记着介绍一下价格啊。我就记住你上回说的那个poor man's buffalo了。想着你都poor了俺还是低头默默地糊口吧。。。